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Rules

Evade skill

Rules forum for TC. All discussions regarding rules and questions should be asked here.

by Maug » 15 May 2018, 14:02

Hi all

Could someone please explain this skill to me as when I look at it (mainly if maxed out) it seems very overpowered as you don't need to split your evade skill up, as you do for combat capacity... Or am I misunderstanding it?

Best regards
Martin

PS: I will probably come with a lot more questions and requests for ideas over the next months as we are planning a full blown campaign for 6 players and 2 DM's, starting 2019.
Maug
 
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by Garra » 16 May 2018, 12:29

Hm, well if you max out Agility, Battle manouver (D) and Evade, you'll get a SV of 25, at the cost of 264 points. It is a stupid high SV, but it's also an very high amount of exp, like, several campaigns worth of exp.

Maxed out, it will give your character the option to evade three attacks, at the cost of not doing any weapon actions that turn, making the speciality not very useful to a fighter but quite useful for a Dimwalker or Witner weaver. Howewer, I do interpret the rules as such as an evade action would interrupt the weaving of a spell if it was being cast since a previous turn and doesn't finish before the evade action is taken.

Also, the highest possible evade SV is also not completely impenetrable because of the negative modifier from the levels of success from the attack. If the attacker uses a target SV of 19, and rolls a 5 then the defending character gets a -14 modifier on his or her evade roll (19-5=14), and thus rolls on a SV of 11. It's still over 50% sucess rate and if the evade suceeds the attacker probably doesn't have enough CP to mount another high SV attack, but it is still possible to be hit, and the extreme amount of exp on this single speciality would have forced the player to neglect all other aspects of his or her stats.

Bit overpowered at the highest level? Maybe, but I think it's a long time before any your player get to that level, if you don't start out with a very experienced characters.
Garra
 
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by Maug » 16 May 2018, 14:43

Ty for a very nice response, And yes it is a lot of points to put into a skill for that, I know, and no, they will start with the 300+50 points. But we are changing systems to Trudvang Chroniclesto get rid of power gaming, and I wan't to mitigate potential upcoming issues.

I'm still unsure of the skill though as our interpretation is different.

"The character cannot do anything else besides try to evade during that action. During a combat round, the character can evade one attack at specialty levels 1-2, two attacks at levels 3-4, and three attacks at level 5."

During that action? Or during that action round? Because you read it as action round apparently, so I would say a fighter could evade 3 attacks and still use his full combat capacity when he has his initiative?
Maug
 
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by Garra » 16 May 2018, 22:41

Well the description in the player's handbook is certainly a bit vague, but I think it is clear that the number of evading actions are counted as of the whole combat round, not per evade action. The description of th evade action on pp 46 in the game master's guide also says that the evade action can only be used when "not performing any other action during a round".

I am also cheating a bit because I base my intepretation with the knowledge of how the two previous editions of Trudvang in Swedish are played, and while the current swedish online version is slightly different from the english, it can probably be used when there's some confusion in the english edition. It says in the swedish edtion for example that the evade action can be used when not performing a weapon action (attacks, parries, feints etc).
Garra
 
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by Maug » 17 May 2018, 08:44

Missed that one on GMG p. 46, makes more sense now and way more balanced., thanks a bunch. Maybe I should actually have gotten the books in swedish, as a native Dane it would be more or less as easy as english :-) Seems like there are quite a few translation issues.

But so far you have been amazingly helpful, I have a meeting with my co-GM on monday where we will discuss oozes of stuff, I guess I'll come back with a few more questions after :-)
Maug
 
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by Garra » 17 May 2018, 20:27

Maug wrote:Missed that one on GMG p. 46, makes more sense now and way more balanced., thanks a bunch. Maybe I should actually have gotten the books in swedish, as a native Dane it would be more or less as easy as english :-) Seems like there are quite a few translation issues.

But so far you have been amazingly helpful, I have a meeting with my co-GM on monday where we will discuss oozes of stuff, I guess I'll come back with a few more questions after :-)


Ingen fara, bara kul att vara till hjälp!

Den svenska versionen av Trudvang Chronicles finns tyvärr bara på online-tjänsten, men det kan definitivt vara ett bra supplement. Det finns som sagt några saker som känns mer ordentligt förklarade i den svenska, men de regelförändringar som gjordes inför den engelska utgåvan som jag vet om, är enligt mig förbättringar, så jag skulle nog rekommendera främst använda den engelska utgåvans regler, och kika i den svenska om det uppstår frågetecken.

Beroende på hur ambitiös du är så skulle du kunna försöka få tag på den näst sista Trudvang-versionen som trycktes, dvs Drakar och demonter: Trudvang (2006), om du vill ha lite mer förståelse för hur spelet har utvecklats. Böckerna är riktigt mysiga, och det finns många spelmekaniker som var mer komplicerade (och roligare enligt mig) förr som du med lite arbete kan använda som husregler och liknande. Jag spelleder själv en sorts hybrid mellan DoDT och TC.
Garra
 
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by Maug » 18 May 2018, 09:23

Actually I wouldn't mind getting the DoDT 2016 version and using that, I'm already considering house rules on +3 traits (as i don't currently see a reason why not), bodypart hitpoint locations as there were in old DoD, and adding the passive shield protection rule that someone on a facebook group noted was apparently lost in the english translation.

So after i talk to my co-GM monday I think we will buy the DoDT2016 version as well, in the end i think we will make the changes needed for making it work and being the most enjoyable in our group. Do you have any houserules on bodypart hitpoints or any knowledge that would be a hindrance to my current houserule ideas?

PS: kept it in english as I know I'm reading all other posts as well, and someone non-nordic might come by and read, who knows, they might even chip in :-)
Maug
 
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by Garra » 18 May 2018, 10:54

Maug wrote:Actually I wouldn't mind getting the DoDT 2016 version and using that, I'm already considering house rules on +3 traits (as i don't currently see a reason why not), bodypart hitpoint locations as there were in old DoD, and adding the passive shield protection rule that someone on a facebook group noted was apparently lost in the english translation.

So after i talk to my co-GM monday I think we will buy the DoDT2016 version as well, in the end i think we will make the changes needed for making it work and being the most enjoyable in our group. Do you have any houserules on bodypart hitpoints or any knowledge that would be a hindrance to my current houserule ideas?

PS: kept it in english as I know I'm reading all other posts as well, and someone non-nordic might come by and read, who knows, they might even chip in :-)


Fair enough, I'll continue in english.
Just a word of caution, DODT (2006) is not the same game as DOD2016. DOD 2016 that is available to be purchased in the riotshop is a re-imagening of the 1980's Drakar och Demoner, and is not tied to the Trudvang world in any way.

This is the version that I've played and is borrowing house rules from. It is unfortunately out of print but it does reasonable often turn up at tradera or at different swedish fb groups where you can get it second hand.
http://www.svenskarollspel.nu/wikia/Dra ... oner_(2006)

On your questions, I found that the bodypart system was quite easily ported from the old system to the new, as long as you make corrections to the HP of players and the different creatures. Specialities concerning healing should also be converted to work with the old system. I think the Hp formula for humans is 24+CON(no bonus from STR)+1D6. For creatures that weren't in the beastiary of the 2006 version GM guide I think I reduced the Hp to 65% of the lower Total HP from the new beastiary.

I am basically using almost all of the old ruleset (Armour parts, fear, bodypart HP) with the new skillset, because it was the skill system that was the big problem with the old .

Hmm, maybe I should make a new thread about this, when I have time to write down something more thought through.
Garra
 
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by AleD » 21 Oct 2018, 16:12

I'm currently DMing a campaign in Trudvang.
We decided to consider the evade skill as an alternative to a parry...Each attack received by the character can be either parried OR evaded. The character can, in the same round, use his/her weapon actions. Otherwise, the skill will result extremely useless for any fighter and does not pay for the experience points used in that. Is it overpowered? Maybe a bit for super-high-experienced characters, but the alternative is that it is almost useless for any averaged character fairly balanced in different skills. What do you think?
AleD
 
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by Garra » 21 Oct 2018, 22:34

AleD wrote:I'm currently DMing a campaign in Trudvang.
We decided to consider the evade skill as an alternative to a parry...Each attack received by the character can be either parried OR evaded. The character can, in the same round, use his/her weapon actions. Otherwise, the skill will result extremely useless for any fighter and does not pay for the experience points used in that. Is it overpowered? Maybe a bit for super-high-experienced characters, but the alternative is that it is almost useless for any averaged character fairly balanced in different skills. What do you think?


To clarify, a fighter in your game can evade an attack just by rolling Evade Sv and not have to use any CP? It does sound slightly on the op side, as it frees up a looot of CP if you never have have to parry, and just always use up all your CP into attacks.

had a witner weaver in my game use evade as a substitute to putting a lot of exp in Fighting, as I made the decision to house-rule/squint my eyes while reading the swedish ruleset to allow players to use evade, and perform combat actions in the same round that are not weapon actions. That allows a spellcaster to evade before or after his turn if the spell takes 1 turn to cast.
Garra
 
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Joined: 24 Feb 2018, 14:38

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